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Roy Janik

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WA- [Oct. 7th, 2001|12:26 pm]
Roy Janik
Well, we're at war.
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[User Picture]From: nekomouser
2001-10-07 10:51 am (UTC)
You think?
I thought we were just shooting fish in a barrel.
But indeed, the moment of truth has arrived.
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[User Picture]From: iggy
2001-10-07 10:52 am (UTC)

leave it to you

to state the obvious:P

ok im freaked out..

oh well thats me miss worrier..
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[User Picture]From: nekomouser
2001-10-07 11:18 am (UTC)

Re: leave it to you

Really? Then this ought to scare the pants off you. Here's apparently the entirety of a phone call from their ambassador or foreign minister or some such to the AP. Their message to the world:
"We condemn this attack," Rehmatullah Kakazada told The Associated Press. "We have received word that a plane has bombed Kabul. We don't have any more information. We are ready for jihad," or holy war.
The diplomat then hung up the telephone.
They have since declared it a "terrorist act" and and are claiming we should be held responsible for Afghan deaths on the world stage and that how can we denounce terrorism on one hand and then bomb them...without warning.
My take is, if they didn't know it was coming by now, they really are an ass-backwards nation. Not to mention we are dropping humanitarian aid at the same time. I think their calling this a terrorist act may have flown in the past, but with the image of the 11th still fresh in everyone's mind across the world, a real terrorist act, I don't think that kind of labeling will be taken very well. And if anything we should point out how far we are going to avoid a holy war, that this isn't about Islam and make it very clear that they are the ones calling for a jihad, we just want those responsible. The one thing we don't want is a holy war, but they keep throwing the word jihad out there to play their own kind, because they know the connotation of the world in the arab and Islamic mindsets. They are using it to manipulate the opinion of other nations by making them wary of our intentions when that word is the very thing we want to avoid at all cost.
I guess I'm just saying that if you stop to think about it, these guys have to piss you off, and more so if you are Muslim and understand the way they are playing you to achieve their own aims in the name of your very religion.
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[User Picture]From: iggy
2001-10-07 11:28 am (UTC)

Re: leave it to you

I am watching TV right now where this war was declared apparently before the Sept 11th attack in taped video conversations with Bin Ladin's Freaky people.

Bring on the Holy War. This act was stated specifically because of our alliance with Israel who is supposedly a hater of all muslim beliefs!!

ALL i can say is I am so glad I am not living next door to you in Alabama and Hisham doesn't have a way of yelling at me!! Because I could see this causing even more hatred of his side towards me.

I also know that my dentist who is Egyptian and Muslim(TMJ doc actually) is totally horrified at what is going on with the entire situation and hates thinking what kind of back lash he is recieving!!

I don't know much, but now I know for sure I better watch myself, being an outspoken Jewish Woman who works in the Jewish community in a very public position..oh lordy..Watch out.

Here comes the phone calls now...ughh
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[User Picture]From: nekomouser
2001-10-07 12:37 pm (UTC)

Re: leave it to you

OH yeah (sorry Roy to get all political in your journal), the war was declared long ago, 96 and reiterated and expanded in 98 I believe are the dates of his fatwahs. But no one took him seriously because he was na individual, not a country. besides, there exist countries int he world right now at states of war with us, though we ignore them. So it has been issued before, but my point was that bastardly as we are, it is not a religious thing, but so long as he paints it that way and gets people to fall for it, he can keep tensions high. The people have to realize that while America can be asses sometimes, it's not because we are anti-Islam or anti-arab...it's just that we ARE asses.

As for the Israeli thing, that's actually down the list, like 4 or so. The number one reason for his jihad is the "presence of two religions in the Holy Land." (Saudi Arabia) which was forbidden by Allah. bin Laden had nothing against America (not like now at least) until he returned home form the Afghan wars to find Saudi Royalty allowing US troops to occupy while we ousted Iraq and then, worse, letting us stay afterwards. Then he sites the US policies that starve children in Iraq and Iran everyday and blah blah blah...all lies of course, but who cares. We were even faulted for having a policy in one country, I forget where that caused people to starve when the fact of the matter was that our foreign aid there totalled nearly twice that of every other country on the face of the Earth's aid combined. It's ike we try to help by helping and giving free things to people, but then when it doesn't solve the problem, when we didn't help enough they turn on us and blame us for the woes. Also, we are viewed as too powerful for pan-islamic beliefs to work. And bin Laden is a major, major follower of pan-islamic ideals such as every nation in the world running under an islamic goverment.
Palestine is defintely on the list, don't get me wrong, but for Bin Laden in particular, it is not what sparked it. He's playing off it to garner support to be sure, though.
As for Hisham, he detests what happened and feels it has nothing to do whatsoever with the Palestinian situation and if anything has pushed the movement backwards. Afterall, who was binding Israel's hands befor the attacks? America. We were the promoters of peace and kept people like Sharon in check. You think we will reign him in now when a Palestinian commits a terrorist act on his soil? Hell no. this attack is the worst thing that could happen for Palestinians.
Why should you watch yourself? The only people getting bad press now are bigots and people like that Canadian lady blaming us for what happened. Strong opinions are fine to hold so long as you don't blame all Muslims for some fanatic's actions. After all, my family is Christian, and we didn't support Falwell's remarks. Every religion has whack-jobs. Also, while our foreign policy sucks, it was no excuse for what happend. avoid those areas and you are fine.
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[User Picture]From: iggy
2001-10-07 12:53 pm (UTC)

Sorry Roy..

We all know you hate political topics

Wes..I agree with you 100%...but you try being a person answering these phone calls from children and adults asking my opinion of the situation at hand

You know on Yom Kippur our Temple had a scare thanks to some moron..and I have to check in every day with a damn cop...luckily he knows who I am.

This entire thing has changed life drastically for everyone..but try living in miami and working for a major JEWISH organization that is very well known.

It isn't easy.

I am answering to damn reporters, and my students, as well as parents who are worried since we are flying to D.C. Soon. I think they should be more worried about just living in a metropolitan city like we do, if they are going to worry about something.

This isn't a fun day for anyone..and it is driving me NUTS!!!
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[User Picture]From: nekomouser
2001-10-07 01:38 pm (UTC)

Re: Sorry Roy..

Meh. You aren't a target, and if you are you are. Nothing you can do about it. But you aren't. So don't worry.
I mean, I could freak out everytime I drive near campus because of the capacity of the stadium or that Jenna Bush, the president's friggin' daughter goes to school here and what a target she would be, but I don't. I am mad, and angry, and yeah, scared I'll be somewhere when someone tries something, but you know what, I just can't bring myself to buckle.
The fact is that everyone has a reason to be a target , but no one more than anyone else. Yeah, so you work at a Jewish organization. But the next target could just as easily be a nuclear power plant or the Alaska Pipeline or a professional football game or Disneyland or a museum of juedeo-christian art in Scheboigan or a water supply or livestock farm. As this last attack shows, targeted groups are out. They don't want to just kill jews. They just want maximum carnage and the jihad is on all American citizens. They targeted two buildings with people from 80 odd countries and every religion and ethnicity around the world, so being Jewish alone is no longer reason to worry.
A year ago, hell, a month ago I would have given you the argument, that you as a Jew were possibly more targeted than others, but now, no way.
Tell your kids and parents that life goes on, trial and tribulation are part of it. Be strong in what they believe, be understanding of others and know that not everyone of Muslim or Arab culture is this way. Seek to build bridges, not burn them and trust that God will provide. If you believe he will then there is no point to asking the question anyway. He allows these men to exist so that we may know the face of evil and precisely why we should follow the ways of goodness and peace. Tell them that all things have a purpose and this is no exception and that the purpose is sometimes God's alone to know, at least at first. Tell them to just keep on living because no matter what is going on around you, you only have so long on this Earth and every minute you are in hiding is a minute you are blaspheming God's gift of life. tell the people you love that you love them because at all times, and highlighted now, you never know when you won't be home for dinner again. Or when they might not. Tell everyone to take their heads out of the sand, screw them on straight and live a joyous life, ready to defend when needed, strong enough to not go down, aware of what can happen, but not afraid to face it. we're all int he same boat the time for divisionary lines is over.
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[User Picture]From: iggy
2001-10-07 02:22 pm (UTC)

I am angry too...

You try being a leader in the Jewish community sometime..it isn't fun!!

Ok so here is what gets me. My children I work with and my advisors that work under me are scared that they will go to war, they are scared they are going to die and most of all they are scared they are Jewish people living in an area that could be a BIG target right now.

It is horrible to think I ate breakfast where those terrorists ate each day, 2 blocks from my house. I shopped at the same food store and probably ran into them a few times. I feel violated and angry..My community which is a very large JEWISH community is angry but underneath all that anger is an underlying tone of being affraid!!

I have to calm the kids down, and I do so, by telling them stopping ordinary life and being scared for these acts is just what these people want, and that isn't good to let them have what they want!

I have to deal with a mom who keeps going back into flashbacks of what it was like during the cold war and my grandfather was flown to an undisclosed location. I have to deal with the press because of my role as a Young Jewish Leader in my community and I HATE that I have to keep up a brave front!!

I have lived through 1 war, lost a friend to it, one of the few tha actually were killed in desert storm, and now I am facing having lost at least 2 friends that bodies have been found for...

I know I shouldn't be scared, but I can't help it. I know that I worry I won't ever see my friends such as the "Austin Crew" again, or Christina, or Wei-Chen...I don't even want to think of it.

Some man had anthrax and lived in MY area..now granted this was 1 isolated case but its from MY area....I live right next to where these men learned to do everything..put yourself in my shoes..I have a right to be petrified right now!!

Being a Jew isn't what scares me, being a Jew in a concentrated largely Jewish Populated area does though!!

Ok enough of filling up Roys space because I know he hates this kind of talk and wes and I love to get into things about it..due to our very different political views..

I love you all ...even you Wessy(putz boy)

Ok I need to go cry I am grabbing the boyfriend to go see serendipity now..
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[User Picture]From: nekomouser
2001-10-08 08:10 am (UTC)

Re: leave it to you

Wait aren't you the one who pointed to CNN airing a story as proof America did bad things in Iraq not too long ago? Now you don't trust them?
Just kidding of course, I don't trust them either. That's half the fun.
I guess none of us are in his head, we merely base our statements, myself, reporters, national policy makers, on statements that bin Laden himself issued in his first and second fatwahs which listed the presence of two religions as his overwhelming cause for his jihad, the initial targeting of American Military personnel above Israeli personnel, and mainly the subsequent interviews he's granted to the BBC and French TV stations in which he said we were his number one goal, and even went on to specifically state that Palestine is a goal but, as you yourself said, we sell the enemy weapons. Israel is an arm and we are the head of the beast. If you stop us first, get us out of the region, they will naturally fall eventually. So while we are not in his head per se, we have merely done our homework and watched the interviews wherein he himself, very specifically detailed his priorities. Of course the translator could have been lying and bin Laden could have been praising Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and saying how much he loves America and Disneyland, but I somehow doubt it.
Also, it's well known he plays different ideas in different regions. His recruitment material in Saudi Arabia is much higher on the American occupation and imperialism than his material in Egypt and Sudan where it plays on the Zionist movement and return of a Palestinian state. So his priorities are not always the same as his troops or al-Queda network buddies.

America also set up the peace talks and got the Palestinian and Iasraeli leaders to shake hands for the first time in like 50 years on the White House lawn. And yes, we do sell them weapons, so do lots of people, but we also DO keep Sharon in check, no one denies that. It is possible to do both and my saying of the one did not preclude the other. His responses to Palestine were always there when attacked, but always tempered for a variety of reasons, one of which was us. No one denies that fact, not even high up Israelis and former people in his position like Netanyahu who has said he always felt his hands were tied by a number of factors.
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[User Picture]From: zinereem
2001-10-07 02:58 pm (UTC)
I don't know where anyone got the impression that I don't like talking about politics and/or war.

I don't like war. I don't like death. But I'll talk about them when or if I have something I feel needs saying. So carry on.
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